Wednesday, October 18, 2006

the gifts and dan phillips

In the post below I said I would try to address the "facts" that Dan Phillips challenges Charismatics with (found in the comments of Mystery quotation: "The Gifts" [tm]). Actually, I don't have the time nor resources to do that. Rather I invite you to try to weed through the comments of that post yourself. Most of the points I would like to have made are in there.

For those of you that must see the historical record (although that path is fraught with risk), I recommend chapter 6 of John Wimber's, Signs and Wonders and Church Growth course. Unfortunately, I do not have an electronic copy so I cannot post the key points without a lot of effort. If you have one or a link to one, please mail it to me. Also, I'm not a scholar by any means. I tried to check a few of these sources and they seem accurate but if you have data (not negative opinion) otherwise, then I would love to get that from you.

The bottom line for the Phillips discussion is that the words and works of Jesus and the Apostles were unique. Phillips claims that today's gifts "bear no resemblance" to those of the first century. I don't understand what he is thinking. I see them bearing quite a bit of resemblance - but they are not, and I do not expect them to be, identical.

He then thinks that Biblical Christians must do these things throughout history for the Scripture to be true. I reject that. I think the Scripture is true regardless of what we see (or think we see) in history. That aside, Phillips' view of history is different than what you would find in the material I referenced above.

Net - very, very smart, spiritual people have argued this much better than Phillips (who I think is also a very smart, spiritual guy) and did so directly from Scripture. In the end, I see both sides as honest but only one as right. It disappoints me when Phillips use biting phrases like "leaky-Canon", "what are you smoking", etc. and misrepresents the views of the other side when in the end, we simply interpret Scripture differently. I have to believe that he has read Piper, Grudem, Wimber, etc. (oh and now Driscoll and Warnock) and I would think he would address these arguments more directly and with Scripture and at risk of pushing it, as brothers in Christ.

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1 comment:

DJP said...

Rick, I said and meant "no sarcasm." Your pictures shows you holding a cigar. So... What are you smoking? I also enjoy the occasional cigar (literally about 15 a year, probably; but when I have them, I enjoy them).

You should have taken me at my word!