This video is not for Arminians - you may choose to get defensive. If you do, I will love you anyway. You can even comment ere if you want to get some equal time but I might choose to not reply (oops - I wouldn't have a choice would I?).
Back then the Calvinistic view was predominant however the missionary spirit was Arminian in intensity. Not so today.
I am going to construct some posters to mock this site.
Picture two men perusing copies of the Westminster Confession while sitting on a park bench. A man walks by and one of the men starts to get off the bench and says to the other,
"I am going to witness to that man."
The other man replies, "Sit back down here, what are you Arminian?"
A high view of God? He must mean seeing God as the one, and the only one who can make a person a believer, but who chooses not to for the bulk of humanity, and then throws them into a Devil's hell to burn forever. Yeah, that sounds like a high view of God to me.
Some C people have a teeny weeny problem with pride. Even the names like "doctrines of grace" (as if we didn't believe in grace) or "When I learned of God's sovereignty" (as if we don't).
So God leans back (metaphorically) and says to Himself "I'm going to create a race that I love with a perfect love, no respecter of persons, that's Me. They are not going to love Me, but that will not change My love equally, to a person. I will provide an escape from an eternal hell for some. Now the "some" will be very few and the others will be very many. What do ya think, Gabe?"
Gabriel says, "Good plan. I especially like the part where you could have provided an escape for them all but You're not going to. It shows You have restraint and discipline. I mean You didn't have to provide it for any of them, so by throwing a bone to some...well...I think it shows how good you are without getting carried away and letting them all have a chance to get away with what they've done!"
Michael pipes in, "Lord, can I ask you a question about Your business?"
God says, No! Don't ever ask me about my business!"
Mike says, "Please, just this once?"
God says, "OK< but just this once I'll let you ask Me about My business".
Mike says, "Why did you only choose a few when you could have died for them all, I mean after all you were in the area, might as well died for them all, right?"
God looks at Michael and says, "Because that is how I wanted it, deal with it!"
And so ends the story of the pre-creation dialogue. So now, kick back and enjoy the show, God's playing a little solataire here and He happened to have chosen you and me to wind up and go. And as God told Mike, get over it and pass the popcorn, we have front row seats!!
SLW/Rick - yes, there is certainly at least a hint of arrogance (if not more) in the video, sorry for that. I liked it for some of the content so I risked the attitude.
Rick - this is why I like your stories (here and elsewhere - and I say this at risk of being labeled emergent), you let the reader see the difficulties of the thinking while disarming some of the confrontational nature of the discussion.
I agree with the obvious dilemma. I summed it up similarly elsewhere. But in the end, that's what I see as the Biblical position - the others fall even shorter and generate other stories with endings worse than the story you told. While, that's my unlearned perspective anyway.
Either way, I see the point both of you are making.
5 comments:
Back then the Calvinistic view was predominant however the missionary spirit was Arminian in intensity. Not so today.
I am going to construct some posters to mock this site.
Picture two men perusing copies of the Westminster Confession while sitting on a park bench. A man walks by and one of the men starts to get off the bench and says to the other,
"I am going to witness to that man."
The other man replies, "Sit back down here, what are you Arminian?"
A high view of God? He must mean seeing God as the one, and the only one who can make a person a believer, but who chooses not to for the bulk of humanity, and then throws them into a Devil's hell to burn forever. Yeah, that sounds like a high view of God to me.
Some C people have a teeny weeny problem with pride. Even the names like "doctrines of grace" (as if we didn't believe in grace) or "When I learned of God's sovereignty" (as if we don't).
So God leans back (metaphorically) and says to Himself "I'm going to create a race that I love with a perfect love, no respecter of persons, that's Me. They are not going to love Me, but that will not change My love equally, to a person. I will provide an escape from an eternal hell for some. Now the "some" will be very few and the others will be very many. What do ya think, Gabe?"
Gabriel says, "Good plan. I especially like the part where you could have provided an escape for them all but You're not going to. It shows You have restraint and discipline. I mean You didn't have to provide it for any of them, so by throwing a bone to some...well...I think it shows how good you are without getting carried away and letting them all have a chance to get away with what they've done!"
Michael pipes in, "Lord, can I ask you a question about Your business?"
God says, No! Don't ever ask me about my business!"
Mike says, "Please, just this once?"
God says, "OK< but just this once I'll let you ask Me about My business".
Mike says, "Why did you only choose a few when you could have died for them all, I mean after all you were in the area, might as well died for them all, right?"
God looks at Michael and says, "Because that is how I wanted it, deal with it!"
And so ends the story of the pre-creation dialogue. So now, kick back and enjoy the show, God's playing a little solataire here and He happened to have chosen you and me to wind up and go. And as God told Mike, get over it and pass the popcorn, we have front row seats!!
SLW/Rick - yes, there is certainly at least a hint of arrogance (if not more) in the video, sorry for that. I liked it for some of the content so I risked the attitude.
Rick - this is why I like your stories (here and elsewhere - and I say this at risk of being labeled emergent), you let the reader see the difficulties of the thinking while disarming some of the confrontational nature of the discussion.
I agree with the obvious dilemma. I summed it up similarly elsewhere. But in the end, that's what I see as the Biblical position - the others fall even shorter and generate other stories with endings worse than the story you told. While, that's my unlearned perspective anyway.
Either way, I see the point both of you are making.
This is a great clip from the DVD series - Amazing Grace... Thanks for finding it, posting it, and reminding us of it!
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