Sunday, January 10, 2010

living sacrifices

Too many, in proper reaction to abuses have over-stepped (1 Cor 5.1-1-2) and have done a full on embrace of sin. They sadden me in their inability understand that we can expect ourselves and others to live holy lives (Rom 12.1). They fail to recognize that for those in sin and for themselves now condoning it, they must repent. Sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for us but we must rule over it (Gen 4.5-8). Not embrace and excuse it under a false notion of love.

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iggy said...
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iggy said...


I in no way am embracing sin... this is a total misrepresentation of what I am doing and saying.

I hoped for more from you.


rick said...

I believe you are in love with Jesus but I think you misunderstand how to interact with sinners and in the approach you have adapted you have given them approval of sin.

I want to be careful not to say more here because we've shared personal information.

We can talk more privately if you think that would be useful but I think we've come to an impasse because I hear you saying I still don't understand you and in my mind you misunderstand me so ...

iggy said...

Since my pastor is Vineyard and I am discussion in all this... and he has no issue with me and thinks what I am doing is a good thing I find it sad Rick that you do not think I am progressing in this carefully and fully engaged. I am not making merely emotional decisions but am earnestly in prayer and seeking God through all this. God has opened my eyes in ways I cannot explain... other than something like Hudson Taylor experienced as he ministered in China.

On one hand I have people like you who may never understand, yet I believe those who are in missionary work will. One does not go into a village and preach sin and condemnation (unless you are Ingrid or Ken Silva), rather one goes in and thoughtfully engages with the community and learns the way of the people and their culture... and bring Jesus into .... that way any changes are God's changes in the people and they are not based on my desires or understandings.

So as a friend I ask you to trust God as He is working in and through me and instead of stabbing me in the back with accusations pray for me as I proceed. God is going to move in the Gay community... so be ready to accept them as God has. ... See More

"Do not call anything impure that God has made clean." (Acts 10:15)

rick said...

Copied from FB ...

In the context you write, we are all in "missionary work" and I agree (and hoped I expressed earlier) with you regarding the wrongness of the "march in and yell SINNER" approach. I think Jesus' conversation with the Samaritan woman (Jn 4) is instructional. He doesn't condemn nor does he condone. Your writing and this interview (and I think it is due to your rightful hatred of the other approach) has been too far in the "condone" direction.

I haven't and don't plan to walk up to someone's face and yell sinner ... but when asked if X is sin, there's no hesitation ... this is where I think you err and send an imappropriate message.

And I think you might still be a Christian and be wrong on that. I just cannot sit back and not tell you danger, danger, danger ... there's a better way ...

iggy said...

I know nothing else to give to those lost and heading to hell than the Gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes.

If that offends you then so be it. I guess we are done talking.


rick said...

You are a good man and trying to be a better one. I have no doubt about that. But in my understanding you are offering something less than the Gospel.

Don't mistake this as "I hate you", "I condemn you", etc... It's simply that your position (again in my opinion) is not what the world needs and I wish we could discuss that without it turning into a reflection of character.