"I would suggest that cessationism is now on the endangered doctrines list". ~ C Peter Wagner - "Dominion!" - Chosen, Grand Rapids Michigan (2008) - (p99).
I'm not a huge CP Wagner fan nor do I think he is accurate but I like the hope that one day that doctrine would go away. I remember when we visited an International Baptist Church in Germany and the preacher said that cessationism was one of the rare incorrect doctrines but perhaps the evilest thing that Baptists have spread through the Church. I almost fell out of my seat ... no, I wasn't slain in the Spirit.
16 comments:
One of the most tortured interpretation of Scripture is the notion that I Cor.13:8-11 proves the cessation of the gifts of the Spirit. And equal to that massacre is the MAN MADE division of sign gifts, motivational gifts, etc., and then to cull out "sign gifts" and say they are gone.
When I hear someone like John MacArthur teach with unabashed certainty that all the sign gifts have vanished with the apostles is breathtaking. It's the same "that word doesn't mean that" interpretation he use to prove Calvinism.
Uh-ih, sorry Rick. :)
One wonders why God would have included how the sign gifts should operate in the canan which would not be recognized as the canan until those same gifts were gone.
But let us not give the wrong impression here. Many who would claim they do not believe in cessation live as though they do, and many churches practice a contrived version of the gifts which are in and of themselves a product of the flesh and therefore do not substantiate their supposed doctrinal claims.
Rick (Ianniello, not Frueh),
not while I have breath; that prophecy will not come true.
So Puritan - by your comment you do believe in the prophetic for today?
Hey Rick - I hate, and I mean in the fleshly, carnal, and unchristian sense, the engage hesitation when one enters your blog.
There, I feel better temporarily. :)
that's to filter those that really don't want to be here anyway ...
"that's to filter those that really don't want to be here anyway ..."
That's blog legalism, my friend!
Rick F:
first, define "prophetic". Secondly, if a prophecy does not come true, can it be truly called prophecy?
Puritan - you seemed to allude that you personally would teach cessationism so that the prophecy that it would disappear would be thwarted. That seems to suggest that you believe that prophecy (future telling) is operational since if it is not why would you work to thqart it?
Unless, which is possible, you were just kidding. :)
The eyes of that middle Jesus follow me wherever I shift in my seat. But the eyes of the guys smoking a cigar seem very shifty to me.
Rick Frueh:
I did not allude to such a course of action; I AM a Cessationist. But you haven't answered the questions...
Prohpecy is both forthtelling and future telling. The latter is in dispute. However most cessationist preachers say, "If you do such and such, then such and such will happen!". That is both forth and forth telling.
If a prophecy doesn't come true it doesn't necessarily mean it isn't from God. It may be a conditional prophecy that can change with repentance. (Ninevah)
And now a question for you:
If the "sign" gifts were to be removed from the church before the canan was established, why would God include them and their procedures for their use in the Scriptures? Why wouldn't He have put them in Pauline letters that did not make canan approval so as to avoid confusion?
Rick Frueh:
First of all, I am a concentric Cessationist, so I do not believe the gifts have totally ceased; I believe they are progressively ceasing. So your question does not apply.
PR - That is very slippery of you!
(Hannibal Lecter)
Hi PuritanReformed, I think maybe you should think twice before declaring that any prophecy can only be fulfilled over your dead body! Sorry, I have a weird sense of humor...
Julie:
the prophecy was that Cessationism would cease. So therefore, for that to happen, either all the Cessaionists like me would be gone, or you Charismatics would have to 'convert' us to your position. I don't see the latter happening, so the former applies.
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